How is Game Parlor doing?

elphilo · Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:54 am Post subject:

While charging a table fee seems reasonable to some, I don't think it is. It might be because I remember when GP didn't have any, but I really think its off putting to most new players of ANY system. You come in to join a community but you're told you need to pay to play. Then that person feels that they don't have to buy their products because they've already paid their table fee. Why should they spend more money there when they can get it cheaper else where AND they pay to play. That's my feelings on it.

GP does offer a loyalty program. You spend $10 a year and you get 5% back in store credit on all your purchases. Its nifty, but kind of falls short when you realize places like Huzzah give you a flat 10% discount on GW products and if you were to join the Iron Fist League for $15 you get 20% off GW products. I feel this is the area the lack the most. And their insistence of not raising their discount seems like a middle finger to me.
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MattHoell · Joined: 20 Jan 2011 Posts: 239 Location: Fredericksburg, VA

I haven't been in a GP since Woodbridge closed, but I always got a feeling we were something they tolerated because we brought in money.

We would come in once a week and pack the gaming space, they would normally have to bring out the bridges and we would still spill out onto the the sit down tables.

Would they let us store some terrain under the tables? Nope. We told them that anyone who came in could use it and we wouldn't be mad if things got damaged, still no.

After much arm twisting they finally let us keep some table toppers there. But that was it.

They would never run any 40k events, we would always have to do it and again it felt like more of a bother to the store.

I think charging of table has the opposite effect for some people. When I go to a store regularly I feel obligated to buy my product them, but if I have to pay for the table then that obligation has been taken care of. So which do they want my $2 or for me to buy a $50 box.

GP used to have reward points, but they discontinued them.

The bottom line is that brick and mortar stores do have to compete with the online guys. It's really hard to drop $500 locally when you only have to spend $400 online.

The Game Vault will give most people 10%, even if you have never been there before and drop a lot of money they will still give you the discount. Even a small discount like that makes a big difference and keeps people coming back to the store.

Let's be honest the gaming space is a huge benefit to gaming stores. How many gaming stores do you know with 0 gaming space? None.

Why because when people come in and see people playing games and having fun, they want to play that game too. Also creating a gaming community creates demand. How much less money would you spend on the hobby if you had no one and no where to play. By having gaming space you get people to come to the store.

Now I'm not saying that we don't owe the store anything, but to say the gaming space is a drain on the store is a crock of [censored]. Like I said if it really was they would get rid of all the space.

But I think the table fee reinforces what I mentioned earlier, that the staff a GP never really make us feel welcome.

AshleyE · Joined: 18 Apr 2011 Posts: 339 Location: Fairfax, VA

Ok so we gripe a lot about it, but has anyone actually SAID anything to them about these things? I only ask because we can't complain forever but never actually tell them we have said issues, how will they know what they are?

Also you nerds need to run an event because I think the last one was the one I did in January. Razz

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Ironhelm · Joined: 28 Apr 2014 Posts: 51

*** Caution! Incoming opinion or what I feel is a healthy dose of history and practical modern fairness. ***

Alright - I will try to keep this brief and relevant, and genuinely without intent to cause angst.

As you guys know, I was (am) one of the founding original council members of the IFL and was one of the very few consistent event organizers; as such, I feel I can provide some context and recommendations. Again, please don't let that it was from 'IFL' raise angst - I respect this is the CGL.

Back then:

* no table fees
* GPC store discount if you were a paid IFL member (a further discount on top of any being offered to general public)
* we had terrain stored at the store
* we had boards stored at the store
* we organized and ran all the events ourselves
* way back when, there were no online gaming stores for GPC to compete with, however there were the 1-800 GW Trolls you called up and ordered by phone ** and this made it such that stores could price BELOW what GW ordering priced at **
* way fewer stores available
* we were a titan sized gaming group - GW recognized us as the largest they knew of -- even so, we alone were not enough to keep a store in the black given the costs of leased space and staff salaries
* we also had a very strong council (each person actively supported and worked at the myriad of club needs) with a solid relationship with the GPC management and staff - 99% of the club had nothing to do with the mgt and staff of GPC

Where did the terrain and boards come from? We ran events during some of which collected $ from our members specifically to fund a boards or terrain 'fund' and we apportioned some of the annual dues to the same. Then we bought the materials and made the terrain (a few of us at least) or ordered the boards.

Fast Forward to modern practical fairness:

* if you pay to play on the pool hall tables, you usually don't buy your sticks there -- the pool hall revenue model is not designed to be based on stick sales.
* if you go to a pool stick shop and buy your gear there, they have tables - very few - and you can play for free on the tables; however, you usually won't be received well if you show up regularly to play on their few tables without ever purchasing a stick from them -- the stores revenue model is not designed to be based on table use fees.
* there are websites that charge significantly less and offer free shipping than the costs of GW product on the shelves of most gaming stores, and certainly at GPC.
* there are more stores now than there were before, and the gaming groups have become less of the massive titan that was the IFL with well over 100 members and more of a tribal 20 closely affiliated, if by visitation pattern alone, with a single store location.
* table fees at one store and none at other competing stores
* no discount at one store and discounts at other competing stores
* no terrain - but terrain at other stores
* no boards - but boards at other stores
* no events - but events at other stores
* CGL is a great club - but tiny compared to what IFL was in its hey day (fairness: IFL seems about same size as CGL now)
* I presume CGL has a great active council with solid relationship with GPC management and staff based on I just figure we do; however, I cannot assert that - just didn't want to suggest inadvertently that we didn't!!
* we do not organize our own events

In fairness (imho),

* GPC should decide which revenue model they want to be based on -- table fees or stock sales -- and then ENFORCE table fees universally and equally if that is their chosen path. If they want to charge for table fees, CGL council could come to an agreement on a bulk annual charge and pay it once out of the annual dues and voila - all the incentive in the world to pay dues to join CGL. If they chose the stock sales as the path, then the CGL council negotiates a great discount and annual sales are tracked to a reference code attributed to CGL to justify increasing tiers of discount (aka start at 10% and go to 15% at $X of purchases of the entire club, and go to 20% at $Y, and so on) thereby encouraging club members to buy/order more through GPC and once again providing a monetary reason to join the CGL as a paid member of the club. Note: any paid member of any club should always consider: if my club isn't handling either of these, what am I paying club dues for exactly?

* the CGL is not responsible for keeping GPC in the black, all their patrons contribute; however it is GPC management's responsibility to keep them in the black; therefore, they set revenue models, set policies from the models, educate staff, enforce and profit.

* It's not the stores' responsibility to provide the 28mm fantasy club with terrain, the 28mm 40k club with terrain, the 6mm clubs with terrain, the 10mm clubs with terrain, the 15mm clubs with terrain ... you get the point. If we don't provide (make) our own terrain, we cannot gripe about someone else not providing it for us. If we want terrain and boards stored there for our club, Council can have a chat with management. If not viable, club can still have terrain spread across multiple reliable and consistently appearing members.

* we should run our own events - generate $ from that, fund club stuff.

Several of you know already that I will happily throw in and organize events -- it's one of the things I really enjoy in the hobby: setting stuff up that enables lots of great friends have a blast. The truth is that while it seems like a lot of work to throw events, it isn't - as long as you don't drop it all on one guy's shoulders at the 11th hour. Even if one person organizes an event solo - as long as they know they are solo from the start, it isn't hard. It's a nightmare if you think you have 3-4 guys doing it and all but one 'drop the ball.' That's easy to avoid amongst friends.

It's about deciding what a club "wants" from it's local hobby store - then interacting with the local hobby store to see if that can be achieved, if not, search for a new local hobby store. Nothing wrong with drawing a line in the sand and starting 'afresh' with a new conversation with the local hobby store. I just started a new (literally brand new since neither IFL nor CGL gamed at VC before) conversation with Victory Comics recently to great agreement and outcome.

You've heard me speak of already having engaged Victory Comics management and working out details with them so that we have a place in Arlington to game. They are excited to have us start playing there *in addition* to GPC (I was clear not to cannibalize GPC) and *in addition* to their established clubs (they were clear that they are not cannibalizing their established clubs) -- quite fair; knowing full well that people will start out by showing up with armies bought somewhere else and that gradually, slow trickle start, people will buy a thing or two over time from them. Maybe pick up a comic subsc from them which is their forte. They are exceptionally attuned to their gaming clubs and customers. They have no illusions of us only buying all of our stuff from them. There are no table fees. They are happy to run events (and run a lot already in other games). They have a massive player following from other games that are a potential huge boon to our club should some of them want to join CGL.
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philsnow · Joined: 09 Feb 2013 Posts: 516

Has anyone talked to Huzzah about trying to organize a fantasy day every week or every other week? Could give us another option for a third night, and I know having talked to them, they do not have a strong fantasy following yet. I would gladly volunteer to go on behalf of the group given that Huzzah is a lot closer to me and I do pass it every day coming home from work. Not looking to replace GPC, but at least expand our options.
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treehugger · Questing knight Joined: 30 Nov 2010 Posts: 2166