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treehugger
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 Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:25 am Post subject: Dragon Wars 7 rules 2011 - October 29th 2011 |
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Ask lots of questions, this our first DW in 8th edition
Army size = 2000 point
Must contain a dragon - all armies must contain a dragon (of the 300 point variety) of their choice from the Storm of Magic found on page 121. The type of dragon breath weapon must be chosen before the game and be a part of your list. The storm of magic dragon may not be ridden.
No Special characters for this tournament (too many other restrictions to worry about special characters) - except for the ringer and the ringer would be me
In the shooting and magic phases, all dragons lose their armour save and instead gain a 3+ ward save. Additionally if any attack in the shooting or magic phase causes multiple wounds, it will instead only cause one wound against the dragon.
Example: A great cannon strikes the dragon and causes a wound. The dragon would get the 3+ ward save against it. If he fails the save, the dragon will only take one wound (not d6).
Example: Twenty bowmen shoot (from one unit) at the dragon, with a -1 to hit. The arrows inflict two wounds. The dragon would get a 3+ ward save against both wounds (not a 3+ armour save, then a 3+ ward save). If the dragon fails any number of saves, it would take only one wound.
The Dragon Ward rule does not affect any attacks made in the close combat phase. However no magic weapons have any affect on the dragon as it a mythical creature. All magic weapons are treated as hand weapons against the dragon.
Example: A chaos lord with the Hellfire Sword hits a dragon twice. The Chaos Lord then wounds on his normal strength and the dragon receives his normal save. The Chaos lord would still do its multiple wounds but receives no bonus for magic weapons. The Dragon Ward rule does not apply in close combat.
Because of the dragon's mystical nature all spells other than direct damage can only affect the dragon on irresistible force. The wizard dies immediately and the dragon can only ever take a single wound, no matter what the spell.
Example: A wizard casts "Master of Stone" on a dragon and does three wounds to it. The dragon would get a 3+ ward save against each wound (not a modified armour save, and then a 3+ ward save). If the dragon fails any number of the three wounds it still only takes one wound. The same example could be used when a wizard uses a bound spell item (like the Ring of Fury, or the Storm Demon) against a dragon.
All other army restrictions apply - example 25% of the 2000 points (not 2300) can be lords
Goal
Object is to kill your opponents dragon - the player that has caused the most wounds on the opposing dragon wins the game. Therefore you could have your entire army wiped out, have no wounds on your dragon and caused one wound on your opponents dragon you still win the game. (Even if that is the only wound that you caused)
Keep track of how the wounds were inflicted even if you get the kill for tie breakers.
Wounds are scored as follows
- Shooting, magic, special attacks, monsters, or characters (heroes & lords) = 1 pt
- hand to hand with dragon on dragon = 2 pts
- hand to hand with chariots, cavalry, monstrous beasts, monstrous infantry, or monstrous cavalry = 3 pts
- hand to hand with infantry, war beasts, or swarms = 4 pts
Game will end when one of the following conditions is met:
1. 6 turns
2. 2 hours
3. Dead dragon
Each players dragon must have been in combat or have shot a breath weapon by end of turn 3. You do not have to have your dragon engaged in every turn after that, as it is very hard to hide in 8th edition.
All players must be ready to go by 11:00 AM on the day of event.
Tournament will be 3 rounds. All tables and terrain will set-up before hand. No army will get extra terrain; example wood elfs do not get extra woods. The first round matches and table assignment will be determined by the random drawing. The players on each table will roll off for sides. There are no special bonuses for roll offs.
Tournament winner is the one who has killed the most dragons, if a tie then the most wound points on dragons, if tie victory points, if tie best dancer. (Bonus points awarded for costumes)
Schedule
11:00 - 11:15 table assignment and set-up for first game.
11:15 1:15 game 1
1:15 2:00 Lunch
2:00 4:00 game 2
4:30 6:30 game 3
6:30 7:00 tally for winner and prizes awarded.
For those who don't have a Storm of Magic Book:
Dragon: M6 WS6 BS0 S6 T6 W6 I3 A5 Ld8
Large Target, Fly, Terror, and Scaly Skin (3+)
Types of Dragon for Breath Weapon:
Fire Dragon - S4 with Flaming Attacks rule
Black Dragon - S4. Units taking casualties must pass Ld w/ -3 mod in order to declare charges in their next movement phase. ItP units only take damage.
Frost Dragon - S3. Unit HIT gains the Always Strikes Last rule until the end of the following turn
Forest Dragon - S2 -3 AS
Storm Dragon - Breath Weapon wounds on a d6 equal to (or better) of the unit's armor save. Units with no armor can't be wounded.
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Last edited by treehugger on Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:27 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Skipschnit
Herr Pyramid Dictator!
Joined: 29 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 10:44 am Post subject: Re: Dragon Wars 7 rules 2011 |
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| treehugger wrote: | Ask lots of questions, this our first DW in 8th edition
Army size = 2000 point This is 2000 PLUS the 300 pt dragon, right?
Example: Twenty bowmen shoot (from one unit) at the dragon, with a -1 to hit. The arrows inflict two wounds. So, all missile weapons that use BS to Hit will be at -1 to hit when shooting at the dragon model. Do other warmachines need to roll a 4+ or anything?
The Dragon Ward rule does not affect any attacks made in the close combat phase. However no magic weapons have any affect on the dragon as it a mythical creature. All magic weapons are treated as hand weapons against the dragon.
Example: A chaos lord with the Hellfire Sword hits a dragon twice. The Chaos Lord then wounds on his normal strength and the dragon receives his normal save. The Chaos lord would still do its multiple wounds but receives no bonus for magic weapons. The Dragon Ward rule does not apply in close combat. When you say "multiple wounds" do you mean that a wound can be multiplied by d3/d6/doubled or do you mean that he hits twice, wounds twice, causes two wounds?
Because of the dragon;s mystical nature all spells other than direct damage can only affect the dragon on irresistible force. The wizard dies immediately and the dragon can only ever take a single wound, no matter what the spell. hahahahahahaha! 
Example: A wizard casts "Master of Stone" on a dragon and does three wounds to it. The dragon would get a 3+ ward save against each wound (not a modified armour save, and then a 3+ ward save). If the dragon fails any number of the three wounds it still only takes one wound. The same example could be used when a wizard uses a bound spell item (like the Ring of Fury, or the Storm Demon) against a dragon. So, if I want to increase my dragon's S & T with "Wildform", I need to get irresistable force and then basically sacrifice my wizard. How does this effect Vampires and their army rule to heal their mounts (zombie dragon/terrorghiest in this situation) ? 
Keep track of how the wounds were inflicted even if you get the kill for tie breakers.
Wounds are scored as follows
Shooting, magic and characters = 1 points per wound.
Hand to hand with your dragon = 2 points per wound
Hand to hand with Calvary, chariots, and models with multiple wounds with a strength 4+ units = 3 points per wound
Hand to hand with foot troops and swarms= 4 points per wound.
Curious as to how this may change with the 8th edition rules for troop types? How do you classify war beasts that aren't ridden? Monstrous Infantry...are they foot troops or models with multiple wounds? Some models with multiple wounds are less than strength 4...???
Do you want to do
Shooting, magic, special attacks, monsters, or characters (heroes & lords) = 1 pt
hand to hand with dragon = 2 pts
hand to hand with chariots, cavalry, monstrous beasts, monstrous infantry, or monstrous cavalry = 3 pts
hand to hand with infantry, war beasts, or swarms = 4 pts
??? I'm thinking that "special attacks" can cover things like impact hits, censor bearer fume attack, giant's special attacks, manglor squig attacks, etc. ??? |
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treehugger
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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Army size = 2000 point This is 2000 PLUS the 300 pt dragon, right? no the army size is 2000, then you add the 300 point dragon this is done on purpose for percentages.
Example: Twenty bowmen shoot (from one unit) at the dragon, with a -1 to hit. The arrows inflict two wounds. So, all missile weapons that use BS to Hit will be at -1 to hit when shooting at the dragon model. Do other warmachines need to roll a 4+ or anything? no
Example: A chaos lord with the Hellfire Sword hits a dragon twice. The Chaos Lord then wounds on his normal strength and the dragon receives his normal save. The Chaos lord would still do its multiple wounds but receives no bonus for magic weapons. The Dragon Ward rule does not apply in close combat. When you say "multiple wounds" do you mean that a wound can be multiplied by d3/d6/doubled or do you mean that he hits twice, wounds twice, causes two wounds? d3/d6/doubled
Because of the dragon's mystical nature all spells other than direct damage can only affect the dragon on irresistible force. The wizard dies immediately and the dragon can only ever take a single wound, no matter what the spell. hahahahahahaha! (we call it the Ben rule)
Example: A wizard casts "Master of Stone" on a dragon and does three wounds to it. The dragon would get a 3+ ward save against each wound (not a modified armour save, and then a 3+ ward save). If the dragon fails any number of the three wounds it still only takes one wound. The same example could be used when a wizard uses a bound spell item (like the Ring of Fury, or the Storm Demon) against a dragon. So, if I want to increase my dragon's S & T with "Wildform", I need to get irresistable force and then basically sacrifice my wizard. How does this effect Vampires and their army rule to heal their mounts (zombie dragon/terrorghiest in this situation) ? same as a normal dragon, if a vampire wants to bring 2 dragons then let him risk it.
Keep track of how the wounds were inflicted even if you get the kill for tie breakers.
Wounds are scored as follows
Shooting, magic and characters = 1 points per wound.
Hand to hand with your dragon = 2 points per wound
Hand to hand with Calvary, chariots, and models with multiple wounds with a strength 4+ units = 3 points per wound
Hand to hand with foot troops and swarms= 4 points per wound.
Curious as to how this may change with the 8th edition rules for troop types? How do you classify war beasts that aren't ridden? Monstrous Infantry...are they foot troops or models with multiple wounds? Some models with multiple wounds are less than strength 4...???
Do you want to do
Shooting, magic, special attacks, monsters, or characters (heroes & lords) = 1 pt
hand to hand with dragon = 2 pts
hand to hand with chariots, cavalry, monstrous beasts, monstrous infantry, or monstrous cavalry = 3 pts
hand to hand with infantry, war beasts, or swarms = 4 pts
??? I'm thinking that "special attacks" can cover things like impact hits, censor bearer fume attack, giant's special attacks, manglor squig attacks, etc. ???
I like it, so shall it be written, so shall it be done
great questions
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Arromanche
Ultimate Bandwagoning GW Whore
Joined: 27 Nov 2010
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Location: Burke, VA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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I might suggest that you make the dragons CC attacks magical. Else I can take 20 Wraiths and about 10 Wraith characters distributed in all units and wack away with impunity.
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Lizardmen 7th - 71-40-9...8th 11-5-0
Skaven In 7th -12-8-5....In 8th 29-15-3
Dwarves 7th - 27-7-0....8th 10-7-3
Empire 8th 10-8-0
Wood Elves 7th - 65-22-3...8th 1-4-0 |
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treehugger
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Arromanche wrote: | | I might suggest that you make the dragons CC attacks magical. Else I can take 20 Wraiths and about 10 Wraith characters distributed in all units and wack away with impunity. |
oh yes I missed that part, but yes in dragon wars, dragons are mystical creatures and therefore have magical attacks, that no war gear can stop.
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Rushputin
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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To be clear: all of these special rules affect any and all dragons, not just the Storm of Magic dragon, right?
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treehugger
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Rushputin wrote: | | To be clear: all of these special rules affect any and all dragons, not just the Storm of Magic dragon, right? |
correct, cause it's dragon wars
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Rushputin
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 4:22 pm Post subject: Re: Dragon Wars 7 rules 2011 |
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| treehugger wrote: | | Because of the dragon's mystical nature all spells other than direct damage can only affect the dragon on irresistible force. The wizard dies immediately and the dragon can only ever take a single wound, no matter what the spell. |
I'm assuming that you're not talking about "Direct Damage the spell type" but rather "spells that inflict hits and or wounds". Since I expect you want people to be able to use Magic Missile type spells and people who only have access to Lores that don't actually have the core book spell types to be able to do stuff. Like, someone should be able to Fireball or Warp Lightning a Dragon... but they're going to have problems with Wyssan's Wildform and Wither?
Also, consider grouping bulk spells under here and making them cause 1 wound. I imagine you should be able to Dwellers Below the Dragon on a normal roll, but that he'd only take a wound (rather than die) on a failed save. Yes?
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Rushputin
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 4:29 pm Post subject: Re: Dragon Wars 7 rules 2011 |
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| treehugger wrote: | | Example: A chaos lord with the Hellfire Sword hits a dragon twice. The Chaos Lord then wounds on his normal strength and the dragon receives his normal save. The Chaos lord would still do its multiple wounds but receives no bonus for magic weapons. The Dragon Ward rule does not apply in close combat. |
This is ambiguous: either magic weapons are treated like normal hand weapons (ie: whatever special abilities they confer are ignored) or they're not (the Chaos Lord in the example is able to do multiple wounds). I don't see why this weapon's +1 S goes away but that weapon's +1 Wound or whatever doesn't.
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Rushputin
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| Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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Because I'm anal, I broke down and rewrote the rules in bullet-point form, 'cause it's easier for me to understand them that way. Where I'm not clear, I've written out my understanding but marked it as a question.
Does this look about right?
Army Construction
- 2,000 points
- No special characters
- Every army must take a Storm of Magic (SoM) Dragon (the 300 point version; Fire, Black, Frost, Forest or Storm) at no cost.
Dragon Rules
- The SoM Dragon may not be ridden.
- The following phase specific rules apply to all dragons:
Magic Phase
- Dragons lose any armor save
- Dragons gain a 3+ ward save. This does not stack with magic resistance.
- Dragons will never take more than one wound per spell per round
- Dragons ignore any spells, with the following exceptions:
- Spells that inflict hits and wounds
- Spells cast with Irresistable Force. If a Dragon is affected in such a way, the caster dies immediately.
Shooting Phase
- Dragons lose any armor save
- Dragons gain a 3+ ward save
- Shots directed against a Dragon are at -1 BS
- Dragons will never take more than one wound per unit's shooting per round
- Breath weapon attacks from a Dragon are magical attacks
Combat Phase
- Any magic weapons used against a Dragon are treated like normal hand weapons
- Combat attacks from a Dragon are magical attacks
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"My experience with Warhammer is that pretty much everything in the setting actually existed in real life, only in real life it was bigger, stupider, sillier, ruder, exploded more often and killed more people." - SteveD
Last edited by Rushputin on Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:34 am; edited 2 times in total |
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treehugger
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| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:52 am Post subject: Re: Dragon Wars 7 rules 2011 |
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| Rushputin wrote: | | treehugger wrote: | | Example: A chaos lord with the Hellfire Sword hits a dragon twice. The Chaos Lord then wounds on his normal strength and the dragon receives his normal save. The Chaos lord would still do its multiple wounds but receives no bonus for magic weapons. The Dragon Ward rule does not apply in close combat. |
This is ambiguous: either magic weapons are treated like normal hand weapons (ie: whatever special abilities they confer are ignored) or they're not (the Chaos Lord in the example is able to do multiple wounds). I don't see why this weapon's +1 S goes away but that weapon's +1 Wound or whatever doesn't. |
the example is if the chaos lord wounds multiple time, the weapon has nothing to do with it.
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Last edited by treehugger on Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:55 am; edited 2 times in total |
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treehugger
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| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 3:54 am Post subject: Re: Dragon Wars 7 rules 2011 |
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| Rushputin wrote: | | treehugger wrote: | | Because of the dragon's mystical nature all spells other than direct damage can only affect the dragon on irresistible force. The wizard dies immediately and the dragon can only ever take a single wound, no matter what the spell. |
I'm assuming that you're not talking about "Direct Damage the spell type" but rather "spells that inflict hits and or wounds". Since I expect you want people to be able to use Magic Missile type spells and people who only have access to Lores that don't actually have the core book spell types to be able to do stuff. Like, someone should be able to Fireball or Warp Lightning a Dragon... but they're going to have problems with Wyssan's Wildform and Wither?
Also, consider grouping bulk spells under here and making them cause 1 wound. I imagine you should be able to Dwellers Below the Dragon on a normal roll, but that he'd only take a wound (rather than die) on a failed save. Yes? |
good point about old magic, I thought there was an FAQ somewhere that classified all such magic missles into direct damage spells. but you are correct.
correct dwellers would only cause one wound, would need an irrestiable force to be cast and the wizard would die.
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Rushputin
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| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 5:40 am Post subject: Re: Dragon Wars 7 rules 2011 |
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| treehugger wrote: | | correct dwellers would only cause one wound, would need an irrestiable force to be cast and the wizard would die. |
So Direct Damage, Magic Missile and spells that cause X hits or X wounds work as normal.
All other spells require the irresistable + death.
?
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TWilson
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| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 5:57 am Post subject: |
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| Is the 3+ ward save stackable with Magic Resistance? |
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treehugger
Questing knight
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| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:55 am Post subject: Re: Dragon Wars 7 rules 2011 |
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| Rushputin wrote: | | treehugger wrote: | | correct dwellers would only cause one wound, would need an irrestiable force to be cast and the wizard would die. |
So Direct Damage, Magic Missile and spells that cause X hits or X wounds work as normal.
All other spells require the irresistable + death.
? |
damage spells cast as normal but can only cause one wound
"All other spells require the irresistable + death" - correct
the idea is this, the caster is disposable, it is all about the dragon.
use case #1
dragon has one wound left and you are trying to beef it up to survive turn 6,who gives a crap about that caster, roll those 6 dice.
use case #2
opponent's dragon has one wound left, cast dwellers, go for the kill, who cares about a silly wizard.
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treehugger
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| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:55 am Post subject: |
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| TWilson wrote: | | Is the 3+ ward save stackable with Magic Resistance? |
no
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Darkblood Skullpulper
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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Can you please ban siren song? If you don't, then I'll be forced to play daemons, assuming I can get permission to join in this year...
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treehugger
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Darkblood Skullpulper wrote: | | Can you please ban siren song? If you don't, then I'll be forced to play daemons, assuming I can get permission to join in this year... |
oh good one, everyone agree to banning?
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Glimpse The Void
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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| treehugger wrote: | | Darkblood Skullpulper wrote: | | Can you please ban siren song? If you don't, then I'll be forced to play daemons, assuming I can get permission to join in this year... |
oh good one, everyone agree to banning? |
I'll co-sign that.
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Davall
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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At a minimum Siren Song and Rune of Challenge should not affect the Dragon.
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