Grail Quest 2014 Tactical Musings

KellyW · Joined: 21 Dec 2010 Posts: 306

Having a four hour drive home gave me a good amount of time to think about what I had learned at Grail Quest. I'm interested in anyone's thoughts:

1. Free monsters changed the meta – all armies I played took free monsters and 5 out of 6 had big monsters (almost maxing out the 350 point allowance). That means you really have to have something that could handle monsters.
2. In a Swedish comp system, the optimal Swedish score is somewhere in the middle of the allowable range. The top ten finishers for this tournament generally have medium level scores (range was 10 – 16). In other words, don’t really weaken your army to get to the top of the allowable range.
3. Infantry-based army struggles against mobile armies, if the infantry-based army doesn’t have a good counter to the mobility. The two games I got massacred, I was facing very mobile armies – a Chaos monster mash and an Empire cavalry and demigryph list (with Curs’d Ettin and Shard Dragon as the monsters, respectively). Two bolt throwers and Metal magic didn’t cut it. Now I can see why so many Dark Elf armies these days have 1-3 characters on steeds or Cold Ones wielding Ogre and Giant blades.
4. In a 20-0 system, the goal is to average 15 battle points a game – the highest placed finishers were around 90 - 100 battle points over six games
5. The corollary to that is that you can still be competitive if you are massacred in one game if you win 2-3 massacres.
6. For competing for overall you need to think about the tournament scoring system. This tournament was awarding up to 40 points for paint – the top tables were in the 90-100 battle point range – thus paint, if outstanding, could count almost half as much as battle points from six games. I took one of my worst painted armies – I should have taken my best painted army.
8. Witch elves + cauldron build is good against ogres and other infantry-based armies – the two games I won were against Ogre armies (getting 22 points and 16 points respectively).
9. I really thought a unit of 24 executioners would be useful and have good synergy with low strength witch elves – but it didn’t really work out. I was disappointed in the executioners – the witch elf unit was never disappointing. The lack of re-rolls on executioners hurts; but I think the bigger factor is that 24 is not enough – conclusion – I think in Swedish, Blackguard are a better selection.

Skipschnit · Herr Pyramid Dictator! Joined: 29 Nov 2010 Posts: 2274

Interesting. Food for thought for the upcoming Colonial Carnage.
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ExecutionerofKhaine. · Shade Joined: 30 Nov 2010 Posts: 2420

I think comp range is somewhat dependant on player ability as well. Dont believe just picking middle of the road comp makes you a candidate for top 10. I think you have to tweak to your abilities on the table too. A better player can win with higher comp score while a less strategic player may need a lower comp score to compete. I think for sure in this format that painting was a huge assist. In the same catagory I think conversions are huge as well. That guy Eoin, playing Ogres, is a pretty good player He always seems to be up in the paint scores. I think he is a decent painter but all of the conversions put him in the upper paint scores. He is always at the top tier of Tournament and I think it is a combination of everything that puts him there.

on to my Dark Elf thoughts...

I don't know the comp hits, but 2 bolt thrower definitely isn't enough. With so many choices to choose from, it going to be fast moving and tough monsters making the games.

I played my DE's with metal magic at Nova before and found myself playing several elves, Ogres and daemons Rolling Eyes

cut the spell lore in half right off. Luck of the draw I guess. Seemed like a good idea to deal with deficiencies.....still does actually to me.

Not sure again about comp, but I like my Executioners at least 32-35 strong. Very dangerous unit and therefore a target, which means they catch all the chaff, spells and shooting. So I end up getting to combat with half the unit Sad

definitely way, way better with hatred. Still the metal models are my favorite models in the whole game and find it hard to play without em Twisted Evil

For mobility I really liked my Lord on a Pegasus with Twilight Cloak and Chillblade, really survived most games and picking the right targets he was devastating. Just avoid high armored foes. Tough to deal with the general running all over, but with new character percentages it should be easier to add a second Dreadlord to be general for leadership
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9th Age Armies
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Gym Shorts · Joined: 23 May 2011 Posts: 1052

I forgot what the twilight guy does and lost a unit of 4 necro knights to a flank charge from that guy...

Picking the units all depends on the synergy, but black guard with AP Banner and rerolls to hit and wound seem solid. On the other hand if your AP banner is on the witch elves anyways that's a little less exciting.

I agree with post of your thoughts Kelly. Most interesting to me is the viability of taking an army in the middle of the comp bracket. I always underestimate the value of taking all the tools you need to win. However, in my games I took a fairly high comp army and ended up playing against high comp armies in 4 of 6 games. The two low comp armies I faced were both bad match ups for me, Chaos Dwarfs and 1+ save, 2 cannons and a steam tank empire. In the Chaos Dwarf game the difference was minimal but it did net me one Battle point. In the empire game we were actually tied in victory points, but I was able to play the scenario and net 600 victory points plus about 400 in comp difference points which allowed me to swing a draw to a solid win.

I think taking a higher comp army helps you survive bad match ups a little better, while a low comp army helps you by giving you the tools to pound people that are good and okay match ups for your army.

GenePhelps · Joined: 09 Dec 2012 Posts: 547

1. While the free monsters will be gone in normal Swedish, you may still see some monster heavy lists since Cannons are comp'd pretty hard. So I agree you have to be prepared to deal with them. I did face a darkelf army with a Dreadlord on Peg, War Hyra, Kyribdis (spelling not even close), and a storm dragon.

2. Riding back with Frank we were working on his Ogre list. Sounds obvious, but we found it helpful that when determining if something was worth the comp hit to compare it to its effect. For example the HellHeart is Comp 30, so it will needs to average about 300 victory points of effectiveness in games. We were not sure it will hit that mark so he dropped it from the list. It also helps a lot to sit down with someone and go over the list piece by piece.

3. I saw a number of armies were using two lord fighty lords and dropping to two level 2's. One if not both of the lords were loaded up to deal with monsters/Cav

6. Look for every bonus point you can grab. You get a point for a nametag on your army. there are points for signing up early and getting your list in on time. Look over the painting pack and be sure your not missing anything. I forgot about bonus objectives in two games and could have grabbed 4 more points, whould have moved me up two spots. They are getting some pushback for heavily weighting the paint scores so I dont think they will do that again. Top score was 110 in battle points and there were 4-5 armies near 40 points in painting (thats 2 massacres)

8. Witch elves/Cauldron is incredible against everything. One opponent had the Razor stantard and it destroyed two blocks of my knights.

Eric · Joined: 27 Dec 2010 Posts: 532

So to pick up on something Gene said, the extra scenario/bonus points are really crucial. I also think they are a real disincentive for static/gunline lists. I can recall in at least three of my matches I was severely disadvantaged because I couldn't reach the objectives without coming out of my corner. In my last game, I was up 17-3 against my opponent who had only his general on one wound and a small unit of dark swords and 5 dark riders on the table, but he was able to claw 6 bonus points to bring it to a 17-9. 3 points vs 9 points is huge in a game where every point counts.

I think if I had a more mobile list I may have had a chance at a few of those bonus points.
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Gym Shorts · Joined: 23 May 2011 Posts: 1052

I think that's part of the reasoning behinde Dwarfs having a problem winning big. MORE GYROCPTERS ahahah

Eric · Joined: 27 Dec 2010 Posts: 532